Potential charge exploit for units
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Potential charge exploit for units
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12-22-2013 11:15 PM
Post: #1
Potential charge exploit for units



Till Offline
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Hello,

I already discussed that with Raoul but since I'm not involved in the further process I wanted to mention it here too, to make sure it doesn't get forgotten.

According to the current rules as written on page 64 under "Moving Chargers"
Quote:If a unit does not have a valid target ... or the if the player does not want it to charge, it may simply move its charge movement in any direction ...

That would mean I could with lets say the Feral Grayhorns announce a Charge Action for 1 ACT then announce that I don't want to charge with any of the models and instead move them all 11" instead of the 3" I would get for a Movement Action.

Arguably since a charge movement is a movement, but no Movement Action I could further proceed with Charge Actions as long as I have line of sight to at least one enemy.

I'm pretty sure this is not intended (and I also never played it like that). I just thought that if there is an errata upcomming for the Mortan Titanium Liche Helm then this could also be taken care of. Or maybe I just overread something.
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12-23-2013 12:04 AM
Post: #2
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Khazrak Offline
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Well, the other text on this page clearly states something else.

The prerequesite is that you make a charge and then only if one or more models, can't (or doesn't want to) reach a target, you can move the non-charging models as you wish. However, as it's a charge, you have to make a successful charge in order to not immediately end your standard activation for this unit after the charge. Ergo, no free 8" movement for your Grayhorns.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2013 12:04 AM by Khazrak.)
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12-23-2013 01:28 AM
Post: #3
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Till Offline
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The prerequisite is not that the unit does perform a charge but, that it declares a charge. There are several prerequisites for that described on page 62, but none of them is that the unit is able to reach a charge target. (Without premeasuring that would also be a bit difficult.)

Well if it would work it is clearly an exploit and noone should use it. The point is just that the models that "doesn't want to" are no charging models and therefore do not make a failed charge. It is even explicitly mentioned that they may attack later on in the activation. So if everyone in the unit "doesn't want to" charge, then there is no failed charge.

The whole part with models that are part of a unit and are not able to charge a target is quite reasonable. This lets you keep unit formation and is totally fine.

But that unit models may choose to not want to charge even if they have a valid charge target messes things up a bit. It is not required that at least one model does really charge and therefore may risk the failed charge consequences (and has the limited straight line and towards the target enemy).
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12-23-2013 02:27 AM
Post: #4
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Khazrak Offline
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But to start a charge action, you have to declare a charge target with at least one model, otherwise you can't charge. That what it's saying on page 64, line 6:

"When a unit charges it can quite often happen, that one or more of the models cannot charge due to models or objects in their direct path, while the rest of the unit can. In such cases, it is possible to charge with just the unit models which are able to charge."

This is perfectly clear to me and no hairsplitting word-interpretations can change that to a confusing "Can I move 11" for 1 ACT?" (or with my buffed Banebrood even way more) - RAI and RAW, I see no problem. To make your 11" charge move, you need at least 1 model to declare a legal charge and the other models, which you don't want to charge, may move their charge range however they want as long as they are in unit formation at the end of the charge movement.

Furthermore, I'd advice on reading the part about Successful and Failed Charges on the same page. There it's getting clear, that declaring a charge with a unit comes with certain points to fulfill, like engaging at least 1 target model. If you declare no target models, you can't engage them and so automatically fail the charge of the unit, although - as you might argument now - not the charges of the individual models. The unit fails and that is the breaking point.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2013 02:35 AM by Khazrak.)
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12-23-2013 07:02 AM
Post: #5
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Fenris Offline
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I'm with Khazrak here. If none of your unit models reaches his target model, you have a failed charge and the unit activation ends. So theoretically you could declare a charge in turn one and move the charge movement in a straight line, but after you finished your charge movement, the activation of that unit ends because of a failed charge.

Michael

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12-23-2013 01:03 PM
Post: #6
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Till Offline
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Well if it's not possible then everything is fine. Because it shouldn't be possible of course.

It's just that all the parts you quote concern the doesn't be able to, not the doesn't want to part.

But I really doesn't care much about it. I just wanted to mention it. I don't expect anyone to rtry and pull such stuff off.
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12-23-2013 11:38 PM
Post: #7
RE: Potential charge exploit for units



Khazrak Offline
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(12-23-2013 01:03 PM)Till Wrote:  It's just that all the parts you quote concern the doesn't be able to, not the doesn't want to part.

Am I misunderstanding something here? I can "want" something as long as I want, but when I am not able to pull something off, then I just can't do it. Wink

This also applies to charging out of range models: Doesn't matter if I don't want to charge - when I am not able to charge (for example by not charging at all), then I can't do it. Everything else is just semantic hairsplitting and I am sure, nobody would ever pull this off and get away with it.

Actively looking for wording, that COULD be misinterpreted when juggling the words long enough, can lead to quite unnecessary discussions. Wink
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2013 11:44 PM by Khazrak.)
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