Defiant in death
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Defiant in death
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05-31-2013 11:30 AM
Post: #1
Defiant in death



Isegrim Offline
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Hello guys,

when reading the rulebook, following questions concerning „defiant in death“ came to my twisted mind:

Situation1 (all happens during one round):

1.) Demarchon uses his tactic „defiant in death“ on a unit hoplites
2.) One Hoplite suffers damage and is reduced to 0 hitpoints. Due to „defiant in death“, the hoplite will be removed from game at the end of the round.
3.) Syntarch activates and uses „paean“ on the hoplites, due to the rules, „defiant in death“ is overwritten by the new unit-tactic.

Question: Will the hoplite with 0 hitpoints be killed immediatly?

Situation 2 (all happens during one round):

1.) Demarchon uses his tactic „defiant in death“ on a unit hoplites
2.) One Hoplite suffers damage and is reduced to 0 hitpoints. Due to „defiant in death“, the hoplite will be removed from game at the end of the round.
3.) Priestress heals the hoplite via healing hands
4.) Syntarch activates and uses „paean“ on the hoplites, due to the rules, „defiant in death“ is overwritten by the new tactic.

Question: At the end of the round, the hoplite has more than 0 hitpoints and is not affected by „defiant in death“ any more. Will he be removed from game?
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 11:42 AM by Isegrim.)
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05-31-2013 12:21 PM
Post: #2
RE: Defiant in death



Christian Offline
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Defiant in Death triggered, so the Hoplit is dead at the end of round.
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05-31-2013 12:28 PM
Post: #3
RE: Defiant in death



Skylifter Offline
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The way I read it, as long as the unit is under the effect of "Defiant in Death", any model reduced to 0 LP will remain standing until the end of the round. The tactic's effect is triggered by the model being reduced to 0 LP, and its effect is then resolved no matter whether the tactic stays active or not.

Or in other words, you have to differentiate between a tactic and its secondary effect. Most tactics have an effect that only works for the duration of the tactic, but this one has an effect that creates a secondary effect when triggered. That secondary effect has a specific duration: until the end of the current round.

Another example of when this happens is during the next round after the tactic was used. Defiant in Death lasts until the unit's next standard activation, so if in the turn after it is used, a model from that unit is killed before the unit activates, that model gets to activate with the rest of the unit even though Defiant in Death ends the moment the unit activates.
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05-31-2013 12:34 PM
Post: #4
RE: Defiant in death



Isegrim Offline
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Thanks for the fast reply!
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05-31-2013 02:02 PM
Post: #5
RE: Defiant in death



David Offline
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(05-31-2013 12:28 PM)Skylifter Wrote:  The way I read it, as long as the unit is under the effect of "Defiant in Death", any model reduced to 0 LP will remain standing until the end of the round. The tactic's effect is triggered by the model being reduced to 0 LP, and its effect is then resolved no matter whether the tactic stays active or not.

Or in other words, you have to differentiate between a tactic and its secondary effect. Most tactics have an effect that only works for the duration of the tactic, but this one has an effect that creates a secondary effect when triggered. That secondary effect has a specific duration: until the end of the current round.
Exactly Correct

Another example of when this happens is during the next round after the tactic was used. Defiant in Death lasts until the unit's next standard activation, so if in the turn after it is used, a model from that unit is killed before the unit activates, that model gets to activate with the rest of the unit even though Defiant in Death ends the moment the unit activates.

Exactly correct; in this example where the Demarchon gives the Hoplites Defiant in Death in round 2, even an affected Hoplite killed before the Hoplites activation in round 3 benefits from the effect, and that is true even though the tactic ends as soon as the Hoplites activate in round-3. This is because the effect explicitely states that the model is removed at the edn of the current round.

There are other models/units with defiant in death as a self tactic. For those guys it lasts until the end of the current round, so when Defiant in Death is an ordered tactic, it is more powerful.


If the Demarchon orders the tactic at the start of round-1, and the Hoplites activate as the final unit in round-2, then it has been in effect for almost two rounds.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 02:03 PM by David.)
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12-17-2013 05:46 PM
Post: #6
RE: Defiant in death



Capek Offline
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May I make a slay movement after killing a model affected by defiant in death? Technically it is destroyed and just not removed from play, that is how i understand the ruling.
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12-17-2013 11:32 PM
Post: #7
RE: Defiant in death



David Offline
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Yes, that is correct.

P65: "If an attacking individual model (not unit moidel!) manages to destroy the enemy model it charged with ist Charge attack, it immediately gains D3 inches free movement and one free attack of the same type as it used in the charge"

Defiant in Death: "If (affected model) is destroyed, he is not removed from play until the end of the round in which he was destroyed and may be activated and use Action Tokens."

Such guys are already dead - they just dont know it yet :-)

For example you cannot heal them either, because they are already destroyed.
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