War Machines
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05-03-2013 01:11 PM
Post: #1
War Machines



Lord Nat Offline
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This is more of a where is it written as I think I know how its supposed to work but cant prove it!

Where does it say I can use a crew MIS skill for shooting? As the Gauge ability of the Scorpio indicates that I can as the crew have no MIS weapons of their own for this to work on.

As pg 91 -92 mention Warmachines using their own stats and says they are accompanied by crews NOT used by crews. Shooting (pg 74) says about the model shooting using its own stat nothing about the possiblity of using another models. Now in the WM LoS section it does say IF its operated by a crew then LoS is drawn from both crew and WM, but where is the part that says a warmachine are operated by the crew.

Hope this makes sense,
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2013 01:12 PM by Lord Nat.)
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05-03-2013 06:08 PM
Post: #2
RE: War Machines



André Offline
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on page 91 it says that a war-machine and its machine crew count as a unit in terms of performance of actions. but you are right, it does not clearly state that the war-machine may use the crews stats. that´s because the war-machine itself is actually not able to perform attacks. it is not a sentient object Smile so the crew is doing the attack and then of course uses its MIS skill.

do you guys think that should be put into an errata?
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05-03-2013 06:21 PM
Post: #3
RE: War Machines



Raoul Offline
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Explaining it in a FAQ might suffice.

Smashing empires of man is a moral duty
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05-03-2013 07:11 PM
Post: #4
RE: War Machines



Lord Nat Offline
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Thank you, thats what I thought. But playing in a predominately WarMachine* club I wanted to check

*and their need for having every thing written down Tongue
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05-04-2013 11:57 AM
Post: #5
RE: War Machines



Teleologica Offline
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(05-03-2013 07:11 PM)Lord Nat Wrote:  Thank you, thats what I thought. But playing in a predominately WarMachine* club I wanted to check

*and their need for having every thing written down Tongue

We only need it written down so you can't make the rules up as you go along.

I mean, I'm just sayin ...

Angel
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05-04-2013 09:43 PM
Post: #6
RE: War Machines



Skylifter Offline
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If it isn't explicitly stated, it should be FAQ'ed, I think.

As a Warmachine player myself, I feel it is one of the luxuries of the system that every rule is clearly written, so there is no need to argue with your friends in the middle of a game. Something a certain larger company's games sorely lack, although they are getting better at it.
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05-05-2013 10:43 AM
Post: #7
RE: War Machines



Khazrak Offline
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When such a discussion occurs, just remind your players, that it's nowhere written down, that you're not allowed to touch your die afterwards and just flip it on a "6"...

In each and every game, there is so much stuff, that it actually 100% clear but people want to piss others of by claiming "this is written nowhere". Sure, often, I want to know how people come to rules conclusions, too, but surely not in this case, where it's not explicitly written down, that the warmachine crew uses and shoots its own warmachine. (which couldn't be shot otherwise!) oO
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05-06-2013 10:26 AM
Post: #8
RE: War Machines



Skylifter Offline
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Khazrak, that is a common misconception. When you play by a set of rules, what can and what can't you do? That is defined by the rules. Now if the rules remain silent about something, that must mean you cannot do that, assuming the rules are complete and correct and there was no oversight by the writer.

Now, the misunderstanding is this: if the rules do not say that you cannot do something, that does not necessarily mean you can; quite the contrary, actually, since if the rules do not mention something, it means that you explicitly cannot do it.

So there is no need to make a list of things you are not allowed to do in a game, in fact, that would be impossible. Instead, a good ruleset tells you exactly what you may do, and remains silent about what you may not do.

So since the Godslayer rulebook makes no mention of the players being allowed to flip their dice to '6', you may not do that within the rules of the game. Similarly, since the rules make no mention of a warmachine being allowed to use its crew's MIS statistic, it isn't, so it makes all its attacks at its own MIS (which I think was 0 in all existing cases).

The misconception has its roots in tabletop games that evolved directly from roleplaying games, like Warhammer and WH40K. RPGs leave a lot open to interpretation to give players and gamesmasters the freedom to explore their game world fully. And that is good for RPGs. It is not good for a competitive game where players play against each other, because leaving things open to interpretation will mean the more lenient player will be at a disadvantage.

Also, André, while we all know that a warmachine is not a sentient object, it is still a model with statistics, and there is no rule about sentience anywhere, or is there?

Now I will certainly not enforce this rule, but saying it were 100% clear is just wrong. Especially for people who play Warmachine/Hordes as their primary system, not 40K or WHFB.
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05-06-2013 11:11 AM
Post: #9
RE: War Machines



Lord Nat Offline
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Thinking about this it does need to be Errated and not FAQ'd because the way the Warmachine section is written is quite vague which contradicts pg 16 the Understanding Rules section

@khazrak, actually it does explicitly tell you that you cant.

pg 16 says that every thing should be played as written.
pg 14 says D6 are rolled then counted.
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05-06-2013 12:13 PM
Post: #10
RE: War Machines



Markgrafgero Offline
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The master machinist rule of the technocrat says the weapon crew uses the technocrats MIS. And the gauge ability of the Scorpio says the crew reduces its MIS.
So it seem pretty obvious the crew has something to do with their MIS stat when handling warmachines.
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