Individuals and units acting in unison?
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Individuals and units acting in unison?
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11-29-2012 01:50 PM
Post: #1
Individuals and units acting in unison?



CplHicks Offline
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Hi.

As I said in my welcome thread, I tried the game for the first time last tuesday and liked it a lot. I played Halodynes, first with a battlebox then with some proxies at 300 points. Both really interesting games. Noorsgard crossbowmen are a pain or rather Hoplite armour sucks against shooting. ^^ The rulebook is on its way to me now to give the game a more thorough try. Currently I have my friends book to drool over.

Anyways, I noticed something and was puzzled by it. It appears that individuals and units cannot act in unison when they are activated together and are in formation. We know the mechanism from other games that you can attach a character to a unit and thus becomes part of it. The situation here was the Demarchon trying to synergize with a unit of Hoplites to also be able to use his shieldability (+2 Arm when in contact with Phalanx) properly. When I put the Demarchon in the second rank, it happened that I either had to activate the unit first, not being able to supply it properly with tactics by the Demarchon or activate him first, thus not being able to fight with the unit of Hoplites in the following charge/engage, being left behind. In case I put the Demarchon in the frontrank, he can activate, buff and charge/engage first, but his unit is then left behind and can only follow after the Demarchon has finished his activation.
I hope you see my problem. Did I miss something or is my interpretation correct? Especially in case of the Hoplites I feel it is realistic and fitting that the Demarchon and such are able to act in unison as also their skills are geared to do so. Especially the shield thingy. Semiedit: While typing this post I read over the rules again and it now seems to me that the Hoplites with Demarchon are supposed to be really defensive to be properly employed. Move D. into position and buff the Hoplites, let them join him and hope for the charge of another unit to strike back with the remaining actions.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012 01:58 PM by CplHicks.)
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11-29-2012 02:17 PM
Post: #2
RE: Individuals and units acting in unison?



Simon Offline
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You are right in activating them one after the other. Put him into the front rank, buff the unit with tactics and then charge with him. When he is done, you activate the unit and charge with them as well (if you only engage, you can perform phalanx after the attack(s) and give the demarchon his ARM-bonus). It is actually not that unrealistic as it appeares first. He only moves a moment before the unit, leading the charge as a glorious example of strength, skill and bravery, slaying the first opponents himself and thus giving courage to his fellowmen. This is actually an advantage, since the enemy has to decide, if he wants to fight back the demarchon or not. Just engage one or two models with him and if he fights back, he is wasting attacks of models not engaged with him, meaning your hoplites will suffer less counterattacks. If he doesn´t fight back, your demarchon can kill some enemys without being in danger, what leads to the same result that your hoplites suffer again less dammage from counterattacks...

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
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11-29-2012 02:38 PM
Post: #3
RE: Individuals and units acting in unison?



CplHicks Offline
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Hmm, I think I get that. Not perfect but it will have to do. Thank you for the quick reply.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012 02:38 PM by CplHicks.)
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11-30-2012 01:49 AM
Post: #4
RE: Individuals and units acting in unison?



David Offline
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I know what you mean about attaching a model to a unit. We tried this in many ways during the playtesting but it always resulted in huge numbers of questions and unclear points so that the special rule description would not even fit on the profile card.

What we have now with separate activations and synergies we feel is the best solution for that, particularly because in each turn (except first turn of the round) you are able to activate an individual model and a unit. This simulates both acting at the same approximate time.

I recommend you try out using the Demarchon and Hoplites a few more times and let us know if you still have any questions. I think you will discover the best ways to use them in synergy by playing.
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11-30-2012 04:37 PM
Post: #5
RE: Individuals and units acting in unison?



CplHicks Offline
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Well, the situations I described above a fairly standard imho and so I think the problem itself will not really go away. But as I said, it will do. I will simply not be fully happy with it and that´s it. No big deal, you never fully are with any game system anyways. The game is still in its infancy and will develop further, so an approach will probably be found in the end that I like better.

I simply feel that your solution does not live up to the resounding statements you make about your rules of "realism" and "authenticity" as the behaviour portrayed by the models is neither. ;-) Hoplites fought in formation, the leader did well not to manically rush forward and try to get killed in counterattacks. That´s what the Synarch is for. :-D You generally prefer to stay in formation. As being on your own gets you stabbed in the back unexpectedly to my experience from many a fight in historical fencing and larp, for what its worth. And a system claims to be the "pinnacle of gamesdesign" and is not able to come up with a solution for that? Yeah, sure. ^^

Anyways, I am looking forward to many more games in the world of Godslayer. When I find a solution that seems to work well enough, I´ll share it. Thanks again for the responsiveness. That is indeed topnotch.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2012 04:43 PM by CplHicks.)
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12-01-2012 03:17 PM
Post: #6
RE: Individuals and units acting in unison?



David Offline
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We may well find other siolutions in the future, and any suggestion you make will be appreciated. When we release wave-2 there will be many more models and perhaps we can find a solution by then. It's also possible to offer a possibility to previous warlords by giving the rule to an item such as a helmet.

The fact is that units already have leaders so an extra leader in the form of a warlord is not really necessary for them. Yes it could be cool if they could join together.

Activating the warlord then the unit in the accomplishes the same effect in most cases. first activate your Demarchon Warlord and use any tactics you want such as Sudden Feat and assigning an action token.

When you then charge your warlord into an enemy unit it is very improtant that you place him in contact with only 1-2 enemy models. This way he can only be counter-attacked by those one or two models. After he slays the first one, he can use Slay-Movement rule giving him a extra free attack and D3 inches free movement allowing you to engage the next model. Then you can kill that one and mak a MOV action and then again kill the next one.

Each time you only place your warlord in melee range of 1-2 enemy models. In this way, the unit will probably not even counter-attack you because it would be a huge waste of the unit's ACT to attack when only one model is in range.

It is true that you cannot charge your Demarchon and the Hoplites together using archilochos, but Archilochos is anyway a a defensive tactic designed to show he is joining the phalanx, and the Hoplites cannot use Phalanx in the turn they charged.

Does that make sense?
Let me know your thoughts.
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