Dreaded
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04-03-2014 08:48 PM
Post: #11
RE: Dreaded



Markgrafgero Offline
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The wording for Hardened will and for Undead regarding bravery tests is the same.
If one isnt effected, the other one should not be too.
A 10 feet high monstrous buffalo warlord armed to the teeth running away screaming like a little girl because of one little dwarf reaching not even his kneescaps? That does not make much sense as well as running statues oder skeletons in panic.
Maybe its easier to change to dreaded rule itself if its causes to much problems. Instead of listing whos scared of dwarfes and whos not.
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04-04-2014 04:27 AM
Post: #12
RE: Dreaded



Mnil Offline
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David pls?

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04-05-2014 12:40 AM
Post: #13
RE: Dreaded



David Offline
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For the Moment Play it that Hardened Will, Non-Living and Undead make the model immune to Dreaded.

The logic behind this is:
Dreaded basically reflects Horror back on Horror and fear causing models.

Undead rule says they are immune to Fear and Horror tests, and so does Hardened Will and Non-Living. These rules are separate and additional to their own Fear and Horror abilities.

So Dreaded counteracts Horror of the Gorelord and targets it back on him, but Hardened Will counteracts the Horror targeted on him.

Similarly Dreaded counteracts Fear of the Legio Mortum and targets it back on them, but Undead counteracts the Horror targeted on them.

Dreaded counteracts the Fear from the Lighteater targeting it back on him as Horror, but Non-Living counteracts the Horror targeted on him.

As you can see, this makes Dreaded less powerful, but I it was anyway initially indended this way as a defense against Creatures such as the Cyclops, Ursapine, Hammerfist etc.
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04-05-2014 11:56 AM
Post: #14
RE: Dreaded



Grimnir Offline
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Hi David,
so we have to forget the phrase from Dreaded's description - "Fear and Horror causing models must make a Horror test against the Einherjer EVEN IF THEY WOLUD NORMALLY NOT BE REQUIRED TO DO SO"?
Gorelord doesn't have Hardened Will so IMHO he should be vulnerable to dreaded ability.
If you restric this ability you will make Einherjers even less playable on 300 pts game than they are now. They are very expensive (core unit costs almost the same as 8 Fjell Warriors), only one model from core unit can be ressurected by Valkyrie (due to the fact that only troopers can be ressurected) and they are very profiled warriors to fight against certain creatures (which aren't so many in 1st wave).
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 11:57 AM by Grimnir.)
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04-05-2014 12:08 PM
Post: #15
RE: Dreaded



Mnil Offline
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Thanks, It's like i thought Wink

Grimnir:
"EVEN IF THEY WOLUD NORMALLY NOT BE REQUIRED TO DO SO"
Fear and Horror are immune to Horror test - it means that now here they are not.
+ Every Warlord has Hardened Will

Additional question:
David, You wrote that the Ligheater causes Fear?
He is not creature, and i don't see that in his abilities Wink

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(This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 12:13 PM by Mnil.)
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04-05-2014 02:43 PM
Post: #16
RE: Dreaded



Huscarl Offline
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I think, that David confounded it with an earlier playtest version of the Lighteater.

@Einherjer: I wouldn`t say that these guys are not playable (e.g. against Shadow Trolls, they can be pretty nice due to their high strength and their enchanted attacks), although I admit that they are a bit nerfed (personally I would`ve found it good, if Dreaded would work against Fear/Horror causing models on medium/large bases regardless of their other abilities).
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04-05-2014 07:06 PM
Post: #17
RE: Dreaded



Mnil Offline
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It would be overpowered though.

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04-05-2014 07:23 PM
Post: #18
RE: Dreaded



Huscarl Offline
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It is only a minor modification of the original wording.
I have not the gaming experience to judge, how overpowered it really is.
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04-05-2014 08:01 PM
Post: #19
RE: Dreaded



Mnil Offline
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Last time my Gorelord did't pass it like 3 times during one game, so i have some premises Big Grin

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04-05-2014 11:04 PM
Post: #20
RE: Dreaded



David Offline
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(04-05-2014 11:56 AM)Grimnir Wrote:  Hi David,
so we have to forget the phrase from Dreaded's description - "Fear and Horror causing models must make a Horror test against the Einherjer EVEN IF THEY WOLUD NORMALLY NOT BE REQUIRED TO DO SO"?
Gorelord doesn't have Hardened Will so IMHO he should be vulnerable to dreaded ability.
If you restric this ability you will make Einherjers even less playable on 300 pts game than they are now. They are very expensive (core unit costs almost the same as 8 Fjell Warriors), only one model from core unit can be ressurected by Valkyrie (due to the fact that only troopers can be ressurected) and they are very profiled warriors to fight against certain creatures (which aren't so many in 1st wave).

"EVEN IF THEY WOLUD NORMALLY NOT BE REQUIRED TO DO SO" Refers to the fact that a model causing Horror normally would not need to test against Horror. For example the Fleshpounder and Cyclops. So the sentence is still valid but Needs clarifying.

All warlords have Hardened Will, that is one of their benefits. That's explained on P90 of the rulebook, so the Gorelord would have Hardened Will since he is a warlord.

Dreaded still works against the Cyclops, Ursapine, Fleshpunder, Hammerfist and most models which are given Fear by spells such as the Halodynes Warcry and Banebrood Grotesque Abomination. And of course there will be more in Wave-2 that Dreaded applies to.

Einherjer are still ass-kicking mega-Killers, even with the "nerfed" Dreaded. Especially when you combine them with the Valkyrie and buff them with the Runegate Keeper or the Warsmith. Buff them with the Brewer as well and they become almost unkillable.

In smaller games consider taking 3 or 4 Einherjer instead of the full unit.

An official errata will come soon after we have discussed all issues, and it might look different to this, but in the meantime this is the official ruling.
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