unit formation
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unit formation
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12-28-2014 11:18 AM
Post: #1
unit formation



Isotop Offline
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Hey,

I´m as new as possible to this game and got a first basic question. I allready posted it in the german sub-forum but did not get a statisfying answer (imo). I´ve had a problem in my understanding of the unit formation rule: Page 60 of the german rulebook says that each model of an unit has to be within 2 inches of another model of the same unit - that´s the requirement for the unit to be in formation. Now, my initial understanding was that it´s enough to have groups of "at-least-two-models-within-2-inches-of-each-other" to have the unit being in formation (while having no limitation on the distance between these groups). The illustration on page 61 of the german rulebook tells something else: There it is stated that ALL the models (A-F) are "out of formation". Following from this i ve several questions:

1. Could you (mods/game designers) clarify the intent on unit formation? Do I ve to build a kind of "chain" of models as suggested by the illustration?

2. Plz clarify the phrase "being on formation". Sometimes, the rulebook tells about a "unit being in formation" and on the next page about "models being in (or out) of formation)

3. I am not sure if i overread something (I apologize in this case), but how do we handle the last model of a unit? It seems to be impossible for a single unit model to be in formation for the fact that it cannot be within 2 inches of another model of the same unit

Thank you for ur work on the game and the answers to my questions!

Isotop
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12-28-2014 02:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: unit formation



Euphoric Offline
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Sorry but this is just common sense. Of course the whole unit has to stay in formation and not just two models with each other.
Just imagine a chain of models
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2014 02:31 PM by Euphoric.)
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12-28-2014 02:33 PM
Post: #3
RE: unit formation



Isotop Offline
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Common sense and rules-as-written are two completely different things...I just want clarification from a game designer (no offense Euphoric)
*and btw, your answer is not solving my third point
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2014 02:34 PM by Isotop.)
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12-28-2014 02:36 PM
Post: #4
RE: unit formation



Euphoric Offline
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Yes, I guess there is always this guy who sais "there is nothing in the rules that states I can't do it"

There are two images in the book that clearly show you how to handle it.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2014 02:38 PM by Euphoric.)
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12-28-2014 03:11 PM
Post: #5
RE: unit formation



Isotop Offline
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Yeah, I´m the "one" guy who wants to play based on the rules, not on intent. Just to be clear: I don´t want to fuck with the game or something ( as i stated, "no offense"), I just want to understand the rules. The first of the two images you talk about does not tell anything about my question. The second one talks about "models out of formation" while the text prior to the pic talk about "unit out of formation".
I just want to help making the rules more clear, for the sentence "[...] at the end of every action, every model of the unit has to be within 2 inches of another model of the same unit" does not tell the player about your understanding of the rules and the second image. I just cant build up the link between "another model" and "unit models have to chain up with 2 inches betwwen each part of the chain".
* I ge the intent of "chaining up" I just want a clear statement
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2014 03:15 PM by Isotop.)
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12-28-2014 03:17 PM
Post: #6
RE: unit formation



Euphoric Offline
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12-28-2014 07:10 PM
Post: #7
RE: unit formation



spy Offline
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In this case the guy is right.
It is not written in the rules that all models have to form an uninterrupted chain of models.
(I read the whole book because of that issue since yesterday...).

In the beginnig I was also thinking to give the "common sence" argument but after carefully reading I had to admit that you may interprete the rule in 2 different ways:

1. If one or more models are more than 2" away from the rest of the unit the unit is no longer in formation.
2. If all models are at least with one other model within 2" all parts are in Formation (but they do not need to form an uninterrupted chain).

Only the text under the picture (an example) may clarify the rule (the statement with DEF is not in formation). The explanation of a picture is not a good place for a rule...

Common sence is dangerous (especially on tournaments) because they cause always irritations. E.g. in this case common sence for ME comes from the fact that all other games I checked speak clearly about an uninterruped chain of models (40k, Bolt Action,...).

An answer by an admin will solve this issue.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2014 07:18 PM by spy.)
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12-30-2014 03:26 AM
Post: #8
RE: unit formation



eshjus Offline
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First of all, Hi Isotop Smile
I was very intrigued about your questions, and like spy up here, initially I've just use the "common sense" to give an explanation. Anyway, after re-reading the book, i would like to show my ideas on this issue, hope to be helpful:
I try to respond to your n.2 question first, just to clarify the other clarification Wink
"Units are a group of individuals (models) who stick together for mutual benefit." This is what the rulebook says to introduce the unit. as you can see there is two keywords: unit and models. We have a unit only when ALL the models, of the same unit, are at least 2" to another model of the same unit. in this case we have a unit in formation.
When happend, involuntarily, that one, or more, model of an unit are pushed away more than 2" from the other model of that unit, the unit is broken. If, for example, one model of my unit of 3 Cromlech Guard is pushed away from the other more than 2", the unit is broken. In this case my 2 model still near each other is consider "models in formation" and the single one is "out of formation". if we ipotize that my unit was formed by 4 models and two models of that unit was pushed away like in the up above example, i will find my unit BROKEN in two groups of two model, each group with the model close enough to be in formation singly. As i say, the unit is broke in anycase, but the models are anyway in formation cause the 2" with another model of the same unit. This is the case of the example on pag.61 of the rulebook, where there is a group of 2 Hoplites, in formation. the single one, out of formation, in the middle, and the three models on the right, also them in formation with each other.
This is the difference of unit formation and models in formation: there is no unit formation until all the models of the unit are in formation with each other.
I think that this wall of text explain also your initial understanding on chain up the models, and your first question indeed Smile

For your last question i think that if a model is the last of an entire unit, he is considered the unit anyway, just because he is the last man of that unit and, as rulebook says about the Slay movement, also if there is a single model left of an unit, he cannot anyway perform this action, thing that only the single models, like Warlord or characters can do.

As always i apologize for my bad English and i hope to be helpful. for any other question I'll be glad to try to help Smile
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