Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine
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Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine
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10-02-2014 09:28 PM
Post: #11
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



Meph Offline
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In all honesty after today's game against Mortan Magistratum I feel it is fully justified to hit all the time, considering that it requires a lot of effort, coordination, and actually getting into combat. If you are magicked or shot to death you won't be really hitting anything, and at least this way I get to make my opponent a bit hesitant about exposing his Einherjers to a Hoplite charge. I see Halodynes as a glass cannon faction, with low armour stats and low life point totals, but brutal synergy and gruesome damage output.

To me a Mortifex using Soulbound on a Scorpio or a Catapult is unfair, but that's a whole different story Smile



If we could just get an official statement from the Mods about the original question the entire matter of fair/unfair could be finally resolved Smile

The errata speaks of a somewhat similiar situation:

dice modifications
In some rare occasions it might happen that a dice roll is affected
by two effects at the same time that would both increase and decrease
the amount of dice used for the dice roll. E.g. this happens when the
Imperial Platemail and Grace of Achallon are both in affect. In this
specific case you should apply both effects, but you would roll a
fourth die and remove the lowest and highest one. On other occasions
that are similar to that, please do the same!
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2014 09:36 PM by Meph.)
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10-02-2014 09:46 PM
Post: #12
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



spy Offline
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(10-02-2014 09:28 PM)Meph Wrote:  If we could just get an official statement from the Mods about the original question the entire matter of fair/unfair could be finally resolved Smile
Yes. Moderators opinion would be also appreciated from my side. Smile
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10-03-2014 04:42 PM
Post: #13
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



Meph Offline
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During my long Reise Reise across Poland today, I read through the whole rulebook and I guess page 101 "General effects limitations" answers the question positively Smile
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10-03-2014 06:19 PM
Post: #14
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



Raoul Offline
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I'd say the same, but this specific question would benefit from a dev opinion (= clarification in Errata) methinks.

Smashing empires of man is a moral duty
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2014 06:20 PM by Raoul.)
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10-04-2014 07:31 PM
Post: #15
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



David Offline
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Although these effects are the same they have different names, so we cannot say they are duplicate.

Therefore apply the following rules direction that Meph pointed out:

"In some rare occasions it might happen that a dice roll is affected
by two effects at the same time that would both increase and decrease
the amount of dice used for the dice roll. E.g. this happens when the
Imperial Platemail and Grace of Achallon are both in affect. In this
specific case you should apply both effects, but you would roll a
fourth die and remove the lowest and highest one. On other occasions that are similar to that, please do the same!"

So OFFICIAL RULING for the Combo:
Roll 4 dice and remove the two lowest.
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10-04-2014 09:03 PM
Post: #16
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



spy Offline
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Cool.
Thank you for the answer. Smile
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10-05-2014 12:51 AM
Post: #17
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



laurens Offline
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(09-28-2014 08:58 PM)Meph Wrote:  Why do you see it as a waste?

like in spy his calculations you can see that there is only 10% more chance of hitting on a 7+ roll with 4 die then rolling it with 3die

=> when you need 7 (average roll for troops)
58,33% when rolling with 2 die
80,56% when rolling with 3 die => 20% more chance
90,90% when rolling with 3 die => only 10% more chance

So let's look at a example:

A unit of 10 hoplites charge a unit, lets say def 13 and arm 9 (dwarfs in shield wall) and all hoplites can attack:

To hit they need a 6 or more to hit => with is a chance of 72% so 7 would hit and they would need a 7+ to do any 1 damage, => so 58% of the 7 models that hit 3,5 so let say 4 would do 1 or more damage
(with average rolls of 7 you would deal 4 damage)

With the 3die rolls you would have 9 models (89%) who have a hit and 5.2 lets say 5 models would get 1 or more damage
(with average rolls of 7 you would deal 5 damage)

With 4 die rolls to hit, you almost would hit with every model (95,91%) and 58% would do one or more damage => 6 models would get 1 or more damage
(with average rolls of 7 you would deal 6 damage)

its not bad ! but lets try the combo grace of archalon and the curse of fates (+2 on damage rolls)

So with the 3die rolls u would have 9 models (89%) that would hit, and need 5 or more to do 1 damage => 83% so 8 models would get 1 or more damage (with average rolls of 7 you would deal 24 damage) with is 4 times more than the 4die roll

In my opinion it is a better option to increase the chance of killing with
a boost of POW if u already roll with 3 die instead of increasing to roll 4 die

ps: curse of fates counts for all models engaging and is 1 point easier to cast (on the example above).

@spy I would not be able to make my point without your study of rolls Smile,
I just followed my gut feeling about this, after 18years of wargaming I have grown a sense for rolling stats.

@meph => Its a good combo if u have a pandragon with 16def => you would hit with 5 hoplites and smack the wildwalker.

Club: The Green Knight

"You have to learn the rules of the game.
And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
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10-05-2014 11:20 AM
Post: #18
RE: Grace of Achallon + Killing Machine



Meph Offline
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In the local meta here the MAG stats are rather high, so I prefer to cast spells that support my own units. With Killing Machine you have a fixed casting difficulty, whereas with Curse of Fates it is case-sensitive, depending on the target's MAG stat. In your example with the Fjell Warriors, the difficulty to cast CoF will be 1 point higher than for Killing Machine due to the Sub-faction ability of the stunties. Also, it is necessary to get near the enemy, familiar or not, whereas Killing Machine can be applied to your units from the first turn onwards and sustained.

This will be useful, for example, vs Banebrood, who get the jump on you first, and when you are hitting with four dice the beasties are less inclined to get to grips with you. In addition, with Killing Machine you get to provide your unit with an additional die and order Defiant in Death, meaning that your attack economy does not falter in the face of losses.

I myself prefer to go for increasing the number of hits, as that leads to a larger number of damage rolls, as well as direct damage from crits. If I am also benefiting from Combined Attack, the number of possible combinations for crits also increases Smile
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