Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting
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Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting
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05-12-2014 09:21 AM
Post: #1
Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



Riquende Offline
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I had a couple of games recently, the first was a relatively bloody loss, then a draw in which I found myself up against it the whole time, but managed to kill just enough of each enemy unit to get the kill points for them. At present, I'm having problems matching the sheer combat strength of the enemy, even when the basic stats aren't too different. The amount of tactics & spells that some armies have access too can buff units up so that they just carve through an unhurt Longshadow unit like they weren't even there. In return, I find it difficult to return enough damage to bring them down, usually I have to focus on a single model as the random POW usually ends up with significant penalty to the damage roll.

Anyway, after the battles I started thinking what I'd like to see in the second wave to round out the Shadow Troll, seeing as most of their options currently would fit more into the idea of a support unit than front line fighters.

Infantry (possible Heavy?):


The new infantry option should be more combat-oriented. Their stats don't need to differ from the Longshadows all that much, though I would like to see MEL 7. I guess they'll probably still have an Instability roll to make, though I'd argue that making all Shadow Troll units susceptible to this would lead to an overreliance on Lighteaters.

If they were made heavy infantry then it could also warrant an armour bump over Longshadows, but it couldn't be too high as you'd have to keep Ethereal in mind.

They would of course have all their spellcasting taken away (as per the Lighteater we know that not all STs are magical). In return, I think they could do with a tactic to call that helps them with damage dealing in melee. If we assume for a moment a similar 'random POW' rule to Longshadows, then something they can call that lets them roll an extra dice and pick the highest would perhaps be a good idea.

Character


Going the other way onthis one, what I'd like to see is a minor character spellcaster in the same vein as the Halodyne Priestess. Again, basic stats wouldn't differ too much from the Lighteater, though if you drop the shadowhand attacks then a drop in MEL might be appropriate (and matter). They don't need to have Spectral Strider, and whether they should keep Midnight Aura probably relates to whether all ST infantry is going to keep Instability. Maybe an increase in MAG might be warranted.

Removing both tactics, we can then add in the ability to take spells. if the character was able to take a single spell from a couple of the existing Rites then it would be an opportunity to ship the model with a couple of new spell selections that could then give new options to boththe Longshadows and Obsidian Nightmare.

Warlord

I'm not 100% sure on the need for a new Warlord if the Obsidian Nightmare gets a couple of new spells, but if there was one I'd like to see it in a similar mold to the infantry option above - slightly more refined towards combat, losing access to spells but gaining tactics and abilities that can pass round some buffs. If the Warlord could pass along a tactic to any unit that gave it the 'extra dice & pick' when rolling for random POW, then it frees up the infantry to have something else, and could indirectly benefit Longshadows.

So those are my long-winded and rambling thoughts on stuff I'd like to be able to pick from when constructing a force.

Rick
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05-12-2014 05:48 PM
Post: #2
RE: Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



artdieart Offline
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i also found it quite hard to win with just shadowtrolls i like them buth lighteaters is a support unit with battlefield control and longshadows are not front row fighters more backline fighters with the metal graps, and are a bit to random (Strenght and instability).

i mostly use shadowtroll as support units in my trolloth army which is totaly fine and you can also take the iron crown to get your sub faction rule of most of the time.
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05-12-2014 07:18 PM
Post: #3
RE: Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



Riquende Offline
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Cool.

I don't have any non-Shadow Troll models.

Rick
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05-15-2014 01:10 AM
Post: #4
RE: Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



David Offline
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(05-12-2014 09:21 AM)Riquende Wrote:  I had a couple of games recently, the first was a relatively bloody loss, then a draw in which I found myself up against it the whole time, but managed to kill just enough of each enemy unit to get the kill points for them. At present, I'm having problems matching the sheer combat strength of the enemy, even when the basic stats aren't too different. The amount of tactics & spells that some armies have access too can buff units up so that they just carve through an unhurt Longshadow unit like they weren't even there. In return, I find it difficult to return enough damage to bring them down, usually I have to focus on a single model as the random POW usually ends up with significant penalty to the damage roll.

Anyway, after the battles I started thinking what I'd like to see in the second wave to round out the Shadow Troll, seeing as most of their options currently would fit more into the idea of a support unit than front line fighters.

Infantry (possible Heavy?):


Current plan for the Shadow Trolls Wave-2 unit is for them to be Heavy Infantry - an elite melee unit.

The new infantry option should be more combat-oriented. Their stats don't need to differ from the Longshadows all that much, though I would like to see MEL 7. I guess they'll probably still have an Instability roll to make, though I'd argue that making all Shadow Troll units susceptible to this would lead to an overreliance on Lighteaters.

If they were made heavy infantry then it could also warrant an armour bump over Longshadows, but it couldn't be too high as you'd have to keep Ethereal in mind.

They would of course have all their spellcasting taken away (as per the Lighteater we know that not all STs are magical). In return, I think they could do with a tactic to call that helps them with damage dealing in melee. If we assume for a moment a similar 'random POW' rule to Longshadows, then something they can call that lets them roll an extra dice and pick the highest would perhaps be a good idea.

Character


Going the other way onthis one, what I'd like to see is a minor character spellcaster in the same vein as the Halodyne Priestess. Again, basic stats wouldn't differ too much from the Lighteater, though if you drop the shadowhand attacks then a drop in MEL might be appropriate (and matter). They don't need to have Spectral Strider, and whether they should keep Midnight Aura probably relates to whether all ST infantry is going to keep Instability. Maybe an increase in MAG might be warranted.

Removing both tactics, we can then add in the ability to take spells. if the character was able to take a single spell from a couple of the existing Rites then it would be an opportunity to ship the model with a couple of new spell selections that could then give new options to boththe Longshadows and Obsidian Nightmare.

The plan is also to have a Trolloth subfaction spell-caster. This of course could also be taken for other Troglodyte subfactions. And we intend to introduce extra spells which can also benefit existing models.

Warlord

I'm not 100% sure on the need for a new Warlord if the Obsidian Nightmare gets a couple of new spells, but if there was one I'd like to see it in a similar mold to the infantry option above - slightly more refined towards combat, losing access to spells but gaining tactics and abilities that can pass round some buffs. If the Warlord could pass along a tactic to any unit that gave it the 'extra dice & pick' when rolling for random POW, then it frees up the infantry to have something else, and could indirectly benefit Longshadows.

The current plan is that the next Shadow Trolls warlord will be a rather monstrous melee warlord.

So those are my long-winded and rambling thoughts on stuff I'd like to be able to pick from when constructing a force.

Your analysis and wishes are very close to our own plans for the Troglodytes, and we agree with you completely, although there are ways to buff Troglodytes already. For example the Duskborn Chieftain can give entire Units Carnage - that's simply outstanding! His other unit tactics are also cool. the Filthling also has the cool tactic Insidious which allows a unit to make a movement or melee attack before charging, and there are the spells of the Obsidian Nightmare.

Yes, ist a lot less buffs than Halodynes or Banebrood, and the trogs have less synergies than wyldfolk, but they are intended to be that way - Trogs models have decent melee skills, decent POW, good armor, Regeneration, magical attacks, Horde Options and high POW Shooting. they are designed to be resilient and all-round decent so that they can fight well on their own. they dont have as many buffing Options, but they also have few weaknesses. that is the theme in Terms of style of Play, and this will be even more evident with the models in Wave-2 like the heavy cavalry Grothag Knights (imagine something like a Tauntan but related to the rhino family, possessing thick leathery Skin and rhino horn. Mounted on this beast is an elite Version of an Ironhide Brute in heavy armor).
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05-16-2014 02:17 PM
Post: #5
RE: Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



Riquende Offline
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(05-15-2014 01:10 AM)David Wrote:  Current plan for the Shadow Trolls Wave-2 unit is for them to be Heavy Infantry - an elite melee unit.

Sounds good, looking forward to seeing them.

(05-15-2014 01:10 AM)David Wrote:  The plan is also to have a Trolloth subfaction spell-caster. This of course could also be taken for other Troglodyte subfactions. And we intend to introduce extra spells which can also benefit existing models.

Fair enough, I'm really looking to increase the utility of my existing casters, so new spells would be welcome, even if I wouldn't use the model.

Does this mean that there's no forthcoming ST character? Not the end of the world, Lighteaters are pretty good.

(05-15-2014 01:10 AM)David Wrote:  The current plan is that the next Shadow Trolls warlord will be a rather monstrous melee warlord.

Can't argue with that!

Rick
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05-18-2014 01:15 AM
Post: #6
RE: Wave 2 Shadow Trolls wishlisting



David Offline
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(05-16-2014 02:17 PM)Riquende Wrote:  Does this mean that there's no forthcoming ST character? Not the end of the world, Lighteaters are pretty good.

Don't worry, there will be an assassin style Shadow Troll character in Wave-2.
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